Jug problem

[Mölders]

S! RANT

I need help understanding how the "Jug", a plane that weighs 2000 kg more than the A9, can outturn an A9 when it fully loaded at low altitude ? I have some facts to disprove this, but you can all add your opinions.

Taken from Hardballs IL2 aircraft viewer

A9
Speed at sea level 588kph
Turn time 22.8
Weight 4250kg

P47D-10 1943
Speed at sea level 537kph
turn time 23.0
weight 6120kg

P47D-22 1944
Speed at sea level 537kph
turn time 23.0
weight 6120kg

P47D-27 1944
Speed at sea level 537kph
Turn time 24.25
weight 6583kg

Now compare the figures. I was outturned tonight at sea level by a P47D-22 i think. Does this make sense ? He wasn't stalling from what I saw. He claims he was outturning me due to high speed, yet high speed = larger turning radius, especially for the p47. Even a P47 ace during the war claimed "The p47 is not a turn fighter, it was best suited for zoom and boom attacks." I was caught by a 47D-27 that was climbing up to me and actually caught up with me. Now, how do they do it, when I flew the p47, even with flaps and WEP, and lots of speed, I can't make that thing do anything. I think we should complain to Oleg eh?

[Specter]

First off, how much of the situtation did you know.
What was your speed and fuel?
What was his?

• This is when I usually cry. If he was a good P-47 driver he was probably maneuvering at cornering speed or at least closer to his than you were to yours. I don't turn much in either plane so I don't know what they are exactly.
  
  Here's what they are according to IL2viewer. It will be where the turn time is maximized (I don't know how accurate it is though)
  
  cornering velocities according to IL2Viewer clean(combat flaps)
  P-47D-27: 370 kph (330 kph)
  Fw-190A-9: 390 kph (350 kph)
  
  
• Also the the P-47 has such a large fuel tank (375 gal US) that the guy was most likely flying at 25%
  
  
• For P-47D-27
  Empty Weight: 4639 kg
  Gross Weight: 6583 kg (Includes .50 ammo pilot/fuel)
  Loadout: 1000 + 2*500 + 500(WAG Rockets?) = 1136 kg
  Excess Fuel: (375 Gal) * (0.75) * 5.97 (lb/Gal) = 763 kg
  
  Weight: 6956 kg
  
  Wing Area: 29.91 m^2
  Wing Loading: 232 kg/m^2
  
  
• FW-190A-9
  Take Off: 4250 kg (100% fuel)
  Excess Fuel: 524 L * (0.5) * (0.715 kg/L) = 187 kg
  Weight: 4063 kg
  
  Wing Area: 18.3 m^2
  Wing Loading: 222 kg/m^2
  
  
• Generally the plane with the lower wing loading is the better turner. Even with the added armament the P-47's wing loading is close to the FW-190's. If the P-47 dropped his bombs when you weren't looking the Wing Loading would have dropped to: 194 kg/m^2.
  
  I'm guessing the P47 was able to stay with you in the turn but then used combat flaps to pull lead.
  
  
• Also from the data you posted, the 190 may have a shorter turn time, but it is traveling at a faster velocity. The P47's turn circle will be inside yours, he will have a couple chances to make a deflection shot.
  
  
• Wing Loadings for comparision:
  Spitfire Mk Vb: 135 kg/m^2
  Yak-3: 181 kg/m^2