Hunde take a look

[Specter]

Saw you talking about how taking the wings of a p63 was impossible. Set my convergence in the Dora to 200m and fired at convergence, the wing came right off.



I was going relativily slow, but it was only a 1/2 second burst at most. I was at the same angle and distance I usually open up when I'm bouncing someone.

Also the engine smoking while you hit the wing isn't all that odd. I've killed pilots in P-47s and P-51s with the fragmentation effect of the Mk108s. Same thing could be happening when you hit the wing root or even the middle. I do agree though that 108 has enough explosive power to rip a wing off with a single hit. Especially since the gas tanks are there too.

I still think that the P-63 DM is totally screwed up. I've seen people pull impossible maneuvers when their wings are full of holes.

Almost took up your offer and posted the track, but didn't feel like being a thingy today. ;D I can email you the track if you want to see it.

[Hund]

Wow, that is a freak thing IMO because I have tried over 100 times easily with FW-190D, La-7, and Ki-84 and never managed to take wing off. I did do it a few times in SPitfire. I don't doubt what you are saying but IMO it is a VERY freak thing. By posting that track all you would do is have people say the DM is fine when it clearly is not.

[Specter]

In rebutle.

In a 109K4


In a 190A9 equiped with Mk108


And this lovely one with the 109K4

[Hund]

In rebutle, I said several times in my posts that I was referring to guns/cannons of 20mm or less .

Also in rebutle, I just made a track where numerous 13mm and 20mm rounds from Dora go right through P-63 wing and do nothing, they don't even make contact. I hit wingtip, and I mean outter wingtip, and the engine bursts into thick black smoke.

If you like I can send you the track, I can't believe you are arguing this.

[Hund]

Here is Faustnik's (from forum) reaction after seeing my track (which took all of three tries and I wasn't even looking for this).

"Wow! I almost think that part of the wing is missing in the DM. Really wierd! The fusalage bulkheads are not modeled at all. You are 100% correct the DM is completely messed up."

Track sent to Oleg.

[Hund]

This is Gibbage's response to track:

"OK. I admit it. There is something VERY wrong in the P-63 DM. This MUST be new in 2.01 because I never noticed it. I have not flown the P-63 much in 2.01, just the P-38.

I went up with some friendly P-63's in a P-38 and Spit and shells just flew through the wings. They seem to get 1 hit, and then just pass though. And yes, I knocked the landing gear off from above the aircraft. So it passed through the wing and into the gear!

This was in 2.02. So the issue was not addressed in that. I dont know about 2.04. Nobody knows. Only Ubi has that. I will ask Oleg but dont expect a reply till Monday. I hope its known and fixed.

Thanks guys for all the test's. This is how we need to get to the issues. Not accusations. Im a beta tester and I try not to shoot from the hip on bugs. Always get a 2nd openion. "

[Specter]

Hunde,

I'm not contesting the dm of the p-63, you just said it was impossible to rip the wings off. I also think in addition to the p-63, the mg151/20s are very weak. I did this more to prove that it could be done, rather than to challenge that the p-63 dm was correct ( I don't think it is). I actually don't belive that the p-63 has a complex dm and that's why it as so many problems.

I forgot you said 20's and below, I used the 109k4 for variation and the 190A9 defaulted to Mk108s because that's what I always fly with.

I can't believe that you are arguing this

That's why its here and not on ubi, I wanted to make sure that you had all the informatino correct before you argued this on a public forum. I'm playing devils advocate that's all.

[Hund]

No problem Specter, I know you were playing devil's advocate but it's just that it's a minor point to an obvious problem. That it could be done in rare circumstances was sort of irrelevant IMO in the overall picture because the bug is so obvious. Maybe I was too absolute and too specific, or just worded it badly.

Whatever the case I didn't mean this to be an argument of any kind, sorry if I sounded like a thingy. I always enjoy flying with you. At least the bug is proven and will be looked into (hopefully).

Nice pics in ORR btw , you should send them to Oleg in track form if possible.

Take care.