I think it's fixed

[Stecher]

Luckily I held on to that old screwed up 9700. It was a major pain, but I was able to get the fan/heatsink off of it, and then removed the broken one from my good card. The old fan/heatsink is now on the new card, and it appears so far that the fan is working fine. Haven't done any lengthy 3D playing yet though, but it is running fast, smooth, and constant, so I don't anticipate any problems. Oddly enough, although both cards were the exact same model, and manufactured by ATI, not a contract company like Sapphire, the fans were different. The old working one has many smaller blades, and the newer broken one had fewer bigger blades. I don't know if that has anything to do with it wearing out so fast, but you'd think that identical cards should have identical parts, no?

[Stecher]

Never mind, I don't get it. Overheating made perfect sense. VC fan breaks, not running right, or at all, game stops. Open case side, point fan in there, get a few minutes of playing, still stops, but better. Sounds like overheat. Solution, provide working VC fan, and open case side, and direct fan with airflow right at the card. It will work, right? Wrong. Whatever. I'm looking at new cards.

[Mölders]

May I recommend Nvidia ?There are alot of companies out there, and the cards are in decent price ranges. ATI cards are either to old with the 9xxx series or to expensive with the X series. I am looking at either a 6600GT or a 6800 manufactuered by BFG. They got lifetime warranty so no need to worry about fans breaking down after 2 years.

[AKA_Hitcher]

My ATI 9600 has never had one problem and there are many others out there with perfectly working ATI cards. From what Stecher has said concerning the environment that his PC is in and his prior PC troubles, it sounds like something larger than a card problem to me.

However, Gunther mentioned that he had a perfectly good Nvidia card that he is not using and would be happy to send to Stecher. Sounds like that would be a decent possibility for now.

[Gunther]

I think you got me confused... I dont have an Nvidia card lol..

[Specter]

If you have an integrated video card on your motherboard try removing the ATI card all together. You'll have to set the settings pretty low, but try playing with the integrated card for awhile. If the comp still locks it is a bigger problem than the video card. I would look at the power supply next, memory, then peripheral cards like sound, etc ...

The #1 killer of electronics is dust, it insulates that components. It overheats and damages the parts much quicker. Make sure that you blow out the computer frequently, especially if you are in an environment with pets.

Also, a problem I have with my computer that may effect yours is CPU overheating. Living in Arizona, the ambient temperature of my apartment is about 80*F and the air is very dry. Air doesn't cool nearly as efficiently as it did when I was living in Oregon. I have to run my cpu at a lower clock setting or it will start acting funny. Next time your computer locks, reboot it immediatly. Most new CMOS has the ability to monitor motherboard and CPU temperatures. If the cpu temp is close to the safety shutdown temperature (mine is 85*C) you have a cpu overheating problem. You can fix this by adding more fans, upgrading the heattsync, replacing the goo between the heatsync and cpu (I think it will break down over a couple years, but I'm not certain).

I added an exhaust fan to the top of my case. There was a lot of heat that was getting trapped up there and the new fan helped it quite a bit. I also reconfigured the fans in the rest of the case so it sucks from the bottom and blows out the top, creating a continuous current.

For the GPU fan, take it with you to an electronics store. I think you have Fry's in Southern Cal. You can ask someone to help you find a better one, or look for one yourself. Make sure the holes line up and has the same connector.

[AKA_Hitcher]

Sorry, Gunther. I can't remember who said they had the extra Nvidia card to send.

[richter]

I have a spare MSI FX 5600 if anyone needs it. It just sits on a shelf in my closet not being used. If someone needs it to get by until they get another, it is yours for the taking Stetcher. As long as I get it back sometime. I have a NX 6600 GT. I was disappointed to find my FX 5900 ran a little better in FB. Also there is a benchmark post in the Community Help forum of the Pacific fighters web site.

[Stecher]

I hadn't heard of Fry's, looks like it is northern and southern Cal, I'm central. But thanks for the suggestion Specter. I doubt a new or different GPU fan would make a difference at this point. That was my original hope, when I switched the two 9700 fans. The one on it now works perfectly, so that's not the issue. Even with it, and the side open with a desk fan directed on it from 6 inches away, it freezes up on me instantly. There is no way it's overheating now. That may have been the initial cause (or not), but it seems like something's been damaged since it's still doing it with more than adequate cooling. I've never heard of an integrated video card on the motherboard, so I doubt I have one. I can probably get a hold of a mid-grade Nvidia for a day to at least make sure it is the video card in general. Richter, thank you for the offer. I'm not quite there yet, in terms of needing a short term replacement, but I'll let you know if I do.

[Mölders]

Wow, you sure get the ATI gremlins in your video card. I have an old ATI Rage 3D pro, and i was able to play a few games with it if any when my Geforce 2 fan died after 4 years of use. Unfourently I don't have any decent cards to lend you as I am in the market for a good one myself. Why three ATI cards just die and stop working properly is a mystery. If the cards haven't passed their warranty, send them in now so you can get some money back. My two cents.

[Stecher]

I think the first 9700 is off warranty by now. The 9800 and newer 9700 aren't, so you can bet I'll get whatever I can. I was able to stick an FX 5200 in today. Had to put the setting near absolute bottom, but IL-2:FB and BF2 ran just fine, no freezes, no lock ups after an hour. It is without question something on the 9700. So now I can at least stop worrying about a broken anything else. Do ATI cards typically run hotter than Nvidia cards? That FX 5200 did not even have or apparently need a fan, just a heatsink, and it was noticably cooler during gaming than my 9700 normally was. I'm wondering if it's because of the lower grade performance it puts out, or is it a typical ATI v Nvidia thing.

[bear]

The ATI cards don't necessarily run hotter than Nvidias its just that that particular video card is a little older and very few cards of that vintage had/needed cooling fans. I have an ATI 9800 Pro and an Nvidia 6800 GT and I find that they both run at around the same temperature.

If you're noticing a big difference I'm thinking you don't have enough cooling/ventilation in your system. I have both my computers sitting next to air conditioning vents in the summer time. In each I have two large fans for the case and then a smaller fan dedicated to the heat from the vid card. For this one I fabricated a scoop out of clear styrene plastic and it links the fan from the vid cards to the small fan blowing out. Then off course there's the fan for the CPU.

[Mölders]

If the card has just a heatsink, don't worry it won't overheat and explode lol. That just means the core clock on the GPU is under 250Mhz. My 9550 is just a heatsink covering the GPU, but what I love is that part of the heatsink extends over the top portion of RAM so it keeps that cool as well. 5200's aren't bad, they actually run quite well in most demanding games. If you dupgrade to Nvidia, pick a card fro mthe 6 series as they perform much better than the 5 series. For ATI pick an x series as it is a newer variant but still the same chipset underneath. They just take the 9 out of the name lol.

[Stecher]

Well, it took 2 years for my 9700 to burn out in a crap Dell case. It had no venting except for the back, no case fans, and a single fan in the garbage PSU. The CPU heatsink/fan was ducted to the back, so it wasn't helping anything else out. I had my current case built specifically to prevent something like this. It has a dual fan PSU, huge Zalman copper CPU heatsink and fan, and 4 case fans with external venting. We even left the top slot open in the back to provide airflow directly across the video card. The case sits in the same place in the same room as the Dell did. How it lasted only 4 months, I'll never understand.

I'm probably going for the X800 something, leaning towards the XL. I have an AGP slot, not PCI-E, by the way. Molders, I'm pretty sure the 9xxx line and Xxxx lines have a very different Radeon chipset. Supposedly 2-3X faster. And from what I hear, the R520 based X900, ETA autumn, will be 2-3X faster than that. But it'll cost around $600 at debut I'm sure. Maybe in a year for BoB (I hope) after the prices drop. For now that X800 XL is $275ish and far better than what I'm used to. On ATI's site it listed the engine clock speed and the geometry rate as being lower for the XL than the Pro. Everything else is the same or higher, including 16v12 pipeline advantage for the XL. Anyone know how important engine clock speed and geometry rate are?

[Mölders]

A high core clock is important. It is how fast the textures are processed by your video card. Geometry rate is how fast your video card can draw the landscape and other things in that landscape. Doom 3 for example has a lot of complex objects and interactive people, so a high geometry rate would allow you to get no lag in that situation. As for the X800XL, thats not a bad card, pretty darn big for my case though.

[bear]

Personal opinion, wait six months on the card. See if ATI will give you something for free, if not see if you can borrow one or pick one up on the cheap. There's going to be a huge leap forward with vid technology soon. Not to say that a current Nvidia or ATI won't still be a sweet card but you'll get a lot more for your money and the card will be competative longer if you hold out a few months.

My 2 cents.

[Stecher]

Yeah, the X900 series towards the end of this year is supposed to be awesome. But buying top notch when it's new will be in the $600 range. I wouldn't do that anyway, plus anything I'd use it for would not even come close to using its full capability. I'm already running near full video settings with my 9700 Pro, a three year old design. The X800 XL, which I did buy last night, will double the performance, and won't have any problems at full settings with anything that I play. I got in on a Dell offer, literally 10 minutes before it expired, that only cost me $230, tax and shipping bumps it to $250 overall. I found multi-game benchmarks that shows the XL clearly outperforming the Pro, despite the lower speeds in those two areas. I guess the extra 4 pipelines was much more important. In fact the X800 XL was neck and neck with the 6800 Ultra, which costs almost twice as much as I got mine for. To be extra cautious with this one, I also went ahead and bought an Arctic Cooling Silencer 5 to replace the stock cooling unit. Apparently I need all the cooling help I can get. We have long strings of 100+ days here, and even with the AC on 76 my room with the computer on sits in the low 80s.

[Gunther]

What part of California are you at stecher?

[Stecher]

Next to Fresno. Looking at 109 degrees tomorrow.

[Stecher]

Well, I got the X800 stock unit swapped for the Silencer 5 cooler. Big freaking thing, as was the card. I panicked for a second when I thought it wasn't going to fit in the case, but it did, barely. I broke open the slot under the card so that the exhaust could blow right out the back of the case, it works great. There's a lot of hot air that would have stayed inside, what a difference that made.

[Stecher]

I'm looking for a program that can tell me my GPU temperature. I don't think the 9700s were capable of that, but I know this is. Any suggestions?

[bear]

mbm.livewiredev.com/

This is a good program. It tells you the heat inside the case, the heat of the CPU, and it reads sensors in the computer, such as the one on the motherboard and lets you set alarms for when any of your components gets too hot. If your card has a heat sensor you should be able to read it with this program, its just a matter of chosing the right sensor to monitor.

[Stecher]

Well, my motherboard isn't on their list. I have a Gigabyte K8NS Ultra 939. I can read voltages, and I do have things to set the sensors to, but they're in codes, I don't have a clue what piece of hardware it is. I saw somewhere that since my motherboard isn't supported I have to use ATItool in conjunction with the custom sensor target of MBM. I'll have to mess around with it, thanks Bear. I flew around for a bit, no problems. BF2 scared the crap out of me when it loaded the in-game world. Some buildings were flashing on the kit selection, then the screen was all jumbled pieces for a few seconds and it went black for a second. Then it reappeared just fine, except the vehicles were solid shadows for a couple seconds, then they loaded their textures. Everything worked perfectly after that. Played for an hour, great FPS. Outside of gaming I've have a few blackouts that last just a split second. Any ideas? I had the screen refresh rate at 60 Hz, just changed it to 75 Hz. Just a shot in the dark, no pun intended, we'll see if that's it.